The Cotonou Times: 204,800 stories is quite a lot. Some people claim that Ifá came from Èkìtì, is this true?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Ifá’s children went to Èkìtì.
The Cotonou Times: What exactly does a Babaláwo do?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: A Babaláwo consults the Gods, performs sacrifices and makes charms. Their mother gave birth to three of them, the first one is sacrifice, the second one is charm and the third one is Ifá consultation. So those are the three things a Babaláwo does. Every Babaláwo is also a Native Doctor.
The Cotonou Times: Thanks so much for your explanation. How did you become a Babaláwo?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:.You see when they gave birth to my sister Ògùntóyìn ,then they gave birth to Ògùndiya My mom started to give birth to àbíkú. When she was gaving birth to a male child,he would die after four months. If she was giving birth to another male child,he would again die after six months. When she gave birth to another male child again he would die after nine months. I was the fifth one, when she realized she was pregnant again, she went for an Ifá consultation to ask if this child would survive. And it was there they saw Èjìogbe,so they were instructed that when I am born, I should be named Ifágbémì. Anybody named Ifágbémí is birthed by Èjìogbe. So I was named Ifágbémí. They were also instructed not to give me tribal marks. My elder sister Ògùntóyìn had eleven tribal marks,she was the next one to Ògùndiya,and the person born right after me Ògùndélé who is still alive also has tribal marks. I was not given tribal marks. Then the man proceeded to say that when I grow up, I will say that I want to do “something”,and that “something” my father won’t be happy with it.
The Cotonou Times:What was it?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:They didn’t know. But I was born,and I kept growing. I was like four to give years of age,when my father said I should go and learn Ifá at his friend’s named Fádáirò from Aketan village. I learnt Ifá there for seven years.
The Cotonou Times: Was he a Babaláwo?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: He was the Olúwo of Aketan
The Cotonou Times: OK.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:By the time I was twelve years of age,I told my father I want to go to school. My father said, Ògùnwándé! it’s a lazy man’s work you want to do.
The Cotonou Times: Why was he saying that?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Yes,he said he was seeing them writing down something very tiny, and that he was wondering what they were exactly writing. My father was telling me is it what I wanted to do with my life, stressing that I will become a “believer”.
The Cotonou Times: Had you started making money with your knowledge of Ifá ?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: You must first learn Ifá for twenty years
The Cotonou Times: Twenty years!!! Which means you still had thirteen years left before becoming a Babaláwo?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Before you can become a Babaláwo unlike now,you had to be able to chant four, five, six stories in a single book of 256 chapters.
The Cotonou Times: So it’s not like what we are witnessing today with people learning Ifá in just three months?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: That’s why their knowledge is not deep.
The Cotonou Times: Please continue Baba
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: My father said that I would become lazy, that I will be turned into a believer. The believers are hypocrites. He said that he heard that a woman who had never been in contact with a man got pregnant and after a while she gave birth; then the child died and resurrected on the third day. Then they saw him going to heaven. And they all know this is a lie, and they said it’s the truth. They are hypocrites. Believers are hypocrites, you will become an hypocrite.
The Cotonou Times: It seems that your father was scared of western values,why? Is it because of the war he went too?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes. He was not happy with my request,I pleaded and pleaded till my mom intervened. So my mom went to meet my father’s younger brother named Ojò Ògùnyẹmí Ajoyinbon Steven.
The Cotonou Times:Thatwas his name?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes
The Cotonou Times: He had embraced Christianity?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Yes,he was a believer and a hunter. My mother begged him to talk to her husband. She reminded him what she went through to successfully give birth to Ògùnwándé. She also recalled that my father’s younger brother Babaláwo Àjàó had already warned us that there would be a time, when Ògùnwándé would want to do something and that we should allow him, could this be what he was referring too?
The Cotonou Times: So what they were referring to was that you wanted to go to school?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Ògùnwándé had refused to eat for the past four days. I refused to eat,I was just drinking water. So Ojò came to my father and prostrated and pleaded with my father that life had moved on from the way it used to be,. He said that when his son Ìgè was born, he decided that tribal marks shouldn’t be given to him because he wanted him to go to school. Ìgè was now eight years old and he was supposed to start school in the beginning of the coming year. He said that we should allow both of them to go to school together, as it was important for children to go to school. My father responded, aren’t you lazy as well? You were lazy, when you came back from Lagos,you had a book under your armpit. My father said that he was always wondering where his brother Ojò was always going to every Sunday. He said that he never knew that his younger brother was going to a nearby church approximately two miles away until he decided to trail him.
The Cotonou Times: What was the main reason for the people in Ọ̀yọ́ at that time to embrace the Christian faith? Were there many churches in Ọ̀yọ́?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá : Just a few,there were not much.
The Cotonou Times: Was it mandatory for all those who went to school then to attend church?
The Cotonou Times: So for any pupil in the 1940s,it was compulsory to go to church on Sunday?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: It was a must.
The Cotonou Times: Because there were more Christian schools?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Anyone who went to Christian schools,had to go to church. And if one did not go, bible studies were taught in school etc.
The Cotonou Times: So your father, back then was not willing to embrace a ”new religion”?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Traditional worshippers fought so hard not to embrace a new religion but their effort was vain.
The Cotonou Times: Why did the Ọ̀yọ́ rulers embrace “foreign religions” since the 18th century , while most of their subjects did not?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Propaganda was used to destroy everything. They were lied to ; that anyone worshipping Ṣàngó,Ògùn will go to hellfire. This was the lie they were told,and some people believed it to be true but it was very effective on school children,because they were always gathered to read the Bible. In fact at some point during the administration of Chief Awolọ́wọ́,some schools were established in which students were taught the Koran by people named Mualim,There were also some schools where students were not allowed to speak Yoruba.
The Cotonou Times:In Ọ̀yọ́ town?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: In the whole of Nigeria and in most Christian schools if you spoke Yoruba you would be fined.
The Cotonou Times: We know that such things happened in Francophone countries, but we did not know that it took place in British territories as well. What is the difference between a Babaláwo and a Onìṣègùn? Are they the same? Or there is a difference?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:A Onìṣègùn can be someone who knows about native medicines,herbs,wounds,concoctions,creams,incisions but knows nothing about Ifá and who doesn’t practice under the auspices of any Òrìṣà,like Ṣàngó, Ọya etc.
The Cotonou Times: Please give us an example
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: For example,in Ọ̀yọ́ there are many groups of Onìṣègùn.We have Babaláwo,Muslims,Christians. My Elder sister happens to be head of all of them because the Aláàfin made her the Ààrẹ Ìṣẹ̀gùn Ọ̀yọ́. The name of her own group is called Bẹ̀rù Àgbà ( Be Scared Of The Elders)
The Cotonou Times: Are they recognized by the Ọ̀yọ́ State Government?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: To some extent yes. And even if they were not recognized what can they do about it? Would they be told not to practice their work,They are not seeking any recognition. The Ọ̀yọ́ State government recognizes them because at some point they still need to designate a representative who will be a medium to transmit messages to them. They don’t consider them as modern Doctors.
The Cotonou Times: We heard you were given a Chieftaincy title known as Àwísẹ Awo Àgbàyé in 1981. Be kind to tell us the meaning of this title?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:You see,every state has its own Àwísẹ.Some states call theirs Àràbà In the olden days,it is the Head of all Babaláwo worldwide who is called Àràbà. And it was only in Ifẹ̀. After a while,some states too started calling their Head of Babaláwo: Àràbà. For example, Ìbàdàn has Àràbà,Lagos has Àràbà in two or three locations. In Ọ̀yọ́, we follow the old ways. The Head of all Babaláwo in Ọ̀yọ́ is called Olúwo. In Ifẹ̀, after Àràbà we have Agbongbon(Ọba ńle Ifá)),then we have Akọ́dà ,then we have Àṣedà,and lastly we have Àwísẹ .
Àwísẹ being the fifth position in Ilé-Ifẹ̀ in the olden days,we have sixteen Babaláwo called Awo-Ọọ̀ni. When they were waking up in the morning and had breakfast,they would then head straight to the palace. If any visitor came requesting to see the King(Olúfẹ̀ ,Ọọ̀ni.) they would have already consulted the Oracle,and performed sacrifices. In fact they knew the visitor’s intentions. So they would have already notified the King that someone was coming, as well as the person’s intentions. If the person had charms on him, they would know and they would tell him to immediately remove that charm So the person called Àwísẹ is not the Head of all Babaláwo. And given the fact that I am quite known, people always assume I am the Head of All Babaláwo. Àràbà in Ilé-Ifẹ̀ is the Head ofAll Babaláwo worldwide. They are the descendants of Ọ̀rúnmílà,the person who started Ifá. Because Àwísẹ is ranked in the fifth position, when Ifá is chanted somewhere in the world,for example when someone in Akúrẹ chants a chapter,it’s Ejiogbe in front of us. When someone from Èkìtì chants a chapter, someone from Àjaṣẹ́ chants another one and when someone from Sabẹ̀ chants a chapter, they would start to say Àwísẹ :We have been chanting you for a while now isn’t it enough. It is the Àwísẹ who will now say exactly what the Oracle is saying.
The Cotonou Times: Àwísẹ is like a spokesperson for Ifá?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes, Àwísẹ is a spokesperson for the Oracle,and it a person who knows Ifá and understands the Oracle very well.
The Cotonou Times: Does the Federal government of Nigeria recognize traditional religions just like Christianity and Islam?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:The government of Nigeria does not recognize the traditional religions like the Islamic and Christian religion. It is only Benin Republic in the whole of Africa who recognizes traditional religions. The Nigerian Government would claim that the traditional worshippers are just 5%,sometimes they will say 10% ,then Christians are 40% and then the Muslims 45%. It is a lie. Both Muslims and Christians in Yoruba land are not more than us. Let me explain,when I take people to Ọ̀yọ́ to carry out a consultation for them, all those who went to Jumat prayers on Friday, will be dancing and singing with me. So I ask all those people who came to see me to consult the Oracle , or to do charms and sacrifices are they not the same people going to churches and mosques? They are the same people,and you are counting them as part of your church members or mosque members. So why can’t I also count them as part of my traditional worshippers as well?
The Cotonou Times: Bust some states,like Ọ̀ṣun do celebrate festivals in Òṣogbo and in Ilé-Ifẹ̀. So do the state governments recognize you?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: It is for you to know that they are lying when they say Muslims are much more or Christians are much more. There are more traditional worshippers. Just observe the crowds at Ọ̀ṣun Òṣogbo festival,you can see over one million people attending. Both Muslims and Christians come from very far place.They are sleeping there a day before the festival sleep begging the Water goddess for children etc..
The Cotonou Times Was this the reason why your father was suspicious about “foreign religions”?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:That was the reason why they used to be called Èké (hypocrite).
The Cotonou Times:We have discovered that there is an Ifá university in the United States of America. Is that true?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes,there is an Ifá University in the USA. It was founded by my own son named Professor Kọlápọ̀ Abímbọ́lá,who is my second son. My first child is a female ,she is also an Ifá priest named Ọ̀lábísí,the next person after her is Bọ̀láńlé Abímbọ́lá,then Kọlápọ̀ Abímbọ́lá, who started the Ifá University in the United States.
The Cotonou Times: For how long this Ifá University has been in existence?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:It was established three to four years ago.
The Cotonou Times: Where is it located in the US?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: It’s an online university which was licensed and authorized by the State of Virginia.
The Cotonou Times:We have also discovered that there is an Ifá Heritage Institute in Ọ̀yọ́ town in Nigeria.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Yes,I was the one who founded the Ifá Heritage Institute in 2008 under the auspices of UNESCO. It was UNESCO that told me to establish it.
The Cotonou Times: So it was the UNESCO in Paris(France),which authorized you to establish the school?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes
The Cotonou Times : So which courses are available in this institution?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: The Ifá Heritage Institute of Nigeria has different faculties such as Ifá studies and Yoruba medicine. In Ifá studies, students are taught how to chant Oracle chapters,with at least two Oracle stories each from all the 256 chapters which must be understood and recited by heart . With reference to Yoruba medicine, students are taught native medicine. They most know all the leaves and herbs, their names and how to use them.
The Cotonou Times: Are degrees issued in this Institute?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: It’s a two years program which bestows a Diploma. Students are also taught art, how to make beads like the one I have on me.
To be followed…..
