The Cotonou Times: In the interview you granted to the Nigerian Punch Online on the 16th of September 2017,you said that “free education” established by Chief Awolọ́wọ́ in the 1950s is the reason why “foreign religions”(Islam and Christianity )had a stronghold in Yoruba land. What did you exactly mean?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá : You see, I never said that what Awolọ́wọ́ was doing was bad . He is our father, he loved us and wanted the best for us. But the mistake he made was, when he wanted to start free education he was supposed to make it mandatory that we should be taught in Yoruba language, in primary and secondary schools, but he did not. Maybe he had intentions of doing that in the future if he had become President.
The Cotonou Times: Are you trying to tell us that free education in the Western Region back then was only available in English language?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Listen to me carefully, when they started,there were three things that didn’t make the program a complete success. The first thing is that they were supposed to build schools in all villages,because most Yoruba people back then lived in villages not in cities. If we take as an example Ọ̀yọ́ where I am from, 90% of the people were living in villages, while those living in cities were just 10%. You see the villages which had a significant population were supposed to be the places where schools should have been established, but instead they were built in the cities. And the reason why it was like this was because there were not enough government schools, most of the schools were faith schools like Catholic,Anglican,Baptist,Methodist etc. They just gave them money to build schools in the cities, so a lot of schools were only established for Christians After a while the Muslim societies stood up and said that they also wanted to have their own schools too. It was then, that Ansarudeen, Nawarudeen etc. were established after they had also been given money to start their own schools. There were no traditional religious societies among them. So all the children of Babalawo, ọmọ oní Ṣàngó, ọmọ Olọ́ya, ọmọ Ọlọ́ṣun in Ọ̀yọ́ did have such an opportunity. I was not a child when all of this happened; I was 23years old when free primary school education was established. From a sole Baptist school that existed initially, we started to have ten, same phenomenon with the Anglican, Catholic learning institutions. The Muslims faith schools also kept increasing in numbers and no one thought to establish a school for the followers of traditional religions. Maybe because they didn’t show an interest for it, but I think the Government should have helped them. What happened was that all the children who attended the Catholic, Anglican, Methodist schools became Christians. And those who attended the Nawarudeen, Ansarudeen schools became Muslims. It was the government who was paying for their fees. That was how all the children became Christians and Muslims. It was in school that they got a change of heart.
The Cotonou Times: So what you are trying to say is that the Government in the Western Region used to pay the school fees of each student to the many different private faith schools?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: The Christian missions, Islamic missions were the ones who owned all the schools.
The Cotonou Times : Were they collecting money from the Government of the Western Region?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá : There was no money involved, it was free .
The Cotonou Times :Free for the students
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes
The Cotonou Times: But the faith schools collected money from the Government of the Western Region ?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Teachers’ salaries were paid by the Government.
The Cotonou Times: And there were not many government schools you said?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: There were only a few schools owned by the government. But, for both the government and faith schools it was free for the pupils, but none of these schools were built in villages, all the schools were in the towns.
The Cotonou Times: What was in your view the cause of this issue?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Nobody knew the exact reason. Probably because some villages were not accessible by road or because they didn’t have a deep thought. If villages had schools, it would have been easy, because as the children were going to schooln they would have returned to the farm to continue their work. Probably Chief Awolọ́wọ́ had that in mind, but he didn’t last long enough before power was taken from him. The free primary education continued like that until free secondary school education was established. Throughout the Yoruba land, nobody was paying anything, either you went to a Baptist Anglican, or Catholic school. All the schools were totally free and as long as nobody stood up and questioned why the students were not taught in Yoruba language it continued as such. Wasn’t it our money which was being used to fund this program?
The Cotonou Times: So are you trying to say back then in primary schools, students were not taught in Yoruba language?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yoruba language was just a subject, I mean they should have used Yoruba language to teach all the other subjects, because it is only in Africa that English is used to teach subjects in schools, native languages are just turned to a subject.
The Cotonou Times: Let’s now move to the cultural part of this program. What is Òríṣà?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: The Òríṣà are spirits which came from heaven to Ife-Odayé. Back then the world was filled with just water, no forests just a few mountains. It was on a particular mountain in Ilé-Ifẹ̀ named Òkè-Ara in which the spirits landed. Ògún was the owner of the chain they all used to climb down from heaven to the Òkè-Ara mountain. Olódùmarè who sent them from heaven had already given them sand. He told them that when they get to the Òkè-Ara mountain,they should sprinkle the sand on the floor. He also gave them a hen, instructing that when they sprinkle the sand on the floor the hen should be placed on it that would enable it spread out. So anywhere the sand touched, automatically became solid ground. Within a few years there was land ,all the water which surrounded the Òkè-Ara mountain had turned to land. Therefore all of this created ground, and it was expanding in what is now known as Ilé-Ifẹ̀. That is the meaning of Ilé-Ifẹ̀. Those who came from heaven, are those who created ground, forests ,animals, birds everything that was brought from heaven, which has made the Earth what it is today. Animals were there, birds were there, when the trees and leaves were coming from heaven they met with Ọ̀rúnmìlà. Ọ̀rúnmìlà always stood at a junction in which the land was very vast and wide in heaven, it is called Orita Àgbàransala. He was the one who named them all. For example, this tree is named Iyaa, this one Opoto, this one Iyeye, this one Akoko. He did the same with birds and the same with animals. Ọ̀rúnmìlà gave each of them two names, he gave them a general name and a secret name. That secret name is what we the native doctors use. For example, when a snake bites someone, it’s the secret name we use to chant incantations to call out the snake’s real name. We would say :”when you were coming from heaven, you met with Ọ̀rúnmìlà at the junction of Àgbàransala. He named you so and so, and he warned you not to harm any of his children but you have crossed the line, because it’s Ọ̀rúnmìlà child that you have bitten. Immediately, let your venom start to come out.” I personally know the incantations which must be pronounced when someone bitten by a snake since I was very young. We call out the snake’s venom using incantations and the patient will sleep off. It’s the Òríṣà who did all that. After they spent a while in Ifẹ̀, ground, forests, birds, animals were created. They decided to spread ou, some went far and some decided to be remain within the vicinities of Ifẹ̀ land. Ògún first went to Saki first, and then he headed to Ire. All the Òríṣà spread throughout the world. After a while, they created humans.
The Cotonou Times: What is the meaning of Ifá?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: I will first explain how we were created by the Òríṣà before I talk about Ifá. When it was time for them to create humans, it was Ògún who fabricated the human skeleton. It was Ọbàtálá who molded us with clay, it was Ọ̀ṣun who provided the water which was used in mixing the mud. After Ọbàtálá was done sculpting, then Olódùmarè breathed life through the nose of the sculpture Ọbàtálá had created. Then the sculpture started to move its body. That was how humans were created, they are the one who created us.
The Cotonou Times: We have asked what is Òríṣà and you have provided full explanations. Now what is Ifá?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:They are all the same, Ifá is among the Òríṣà. Ifá is an Òríṣà, just like Ògún, Ọ̀ṣun,Ọya, Ṣàngó etc. all of them are Òríṣà.
The Cotonou Times: You mentioned Ṣàngó, we know that during his life time he was the Aláàfin Ọ̀yọ́, is it the same person we are referring to or someone else?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes, he is the same person. You see, it is Ọ̀rànmíyàn who gave birth to Ṣàngó. Ọ̀rànmíyàn is a child to Odùduwà. is the one who created the ground. You see when they wanted to create the ground when they were at Òkè-Ara, Ọbàtálá who happens to be the eldest from Heaven slept off. His younger brother Ọbàtálá knew all the incantations which were going to be pronounced when they pour the sand on the floor. Since his brother had slept, he decided to collect the sand,pour it on the floor, pronounce the incantations,place the hen on it to spread it out. These are the reasons we call all Yoruba people,the children of Odùduwà. because he was the one who created the ground. It was that Ọbàtálá who was supposed to do it but he slept off.
The Cotonou Times: Is the person we all know as Odùduwà. a spirit or a human being? Because, according to our findings, the Portuguese wrote a book about Aláàfin Ọ̀yọ́,the same Ṣàngó, we were talking about earlier.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Listen; there are two types of Ṣàngó. The one who came from heaven,then after a while all the Òríṣà entered the ground. Ṣàngó too entered the ground before he went to heaven for thunder and lightening. All the Òríṣà completely entered the ground. Ọya, entered the the ground at Ilé-Ira, Ṣàngó entered the ground at Lokoso..I am speaking from Boston., Harvard is here,MIT is here at the University of Boston then someone comes for a seminar in Harvard and says,there is a place named Garden of Eden,and it’s where the world started from. Everyone that is sitting down there would stand up and say that this person is a monkey. Ignorance has gone far beyond that. Everyone agrees that Africa is where everybody came from. If there is a Garden of Eden,it is in the land of Africa not in Israel. Do you believe that?
The Cotonou Times: Yes, it does make sense.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Now, where in Africa did Humanity start? Only the Yorubas claim that the origin of humanity started in Ilé-Ifẹ̀. All the storiesyou all read in books are rubbish.This story according to which Odùduwà came to Ilé-Ifẹ̀, and he encountered some people in the area ,where did they get that from? Did they get it from Ifá ?
The Cotonou Times: What some historians are saying about Ṣàngó is that the Portuguese in the 12/13th centuries, had trading relations with the Ọ̀yọ́ Kingdom and that all the wonders performed by Ṣàngó during his lifetime, were transcribed in documents.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Yes, we heard that too. Does that now mean that Odùduwà encountered some people in Ilé-Ifẹ̀? Where did this one come from?
The Cotonou Times: Because we know people would think that, the person known as Odùduwà gave birth to Ọ̀rànmíyàn in the 12th or 13th century? Because some countries have stories over ten thousand years.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: : All I am telling you came from Ifá.
The Cotonou Times: Let’s go back to the topic of Ifá. You said earlier that Ifá is an Òríṣà.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Ifá. is one of the Òríṣà which came from heaven to Ifẹ̀ -Odayé. He was the first person to start using sand as a means to know things, known as geomancy. The Binary system that was used in inventing computers. People who know about the science behind computers have written about it, nobody disagrees that it is from Ifá. that computing originates from.
The Cotonou Times: Yes it is true.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: It was Ọ̀rúnmìlà who started the use of it on the ground,then we started using it on Ọ̀pọ́n, then with Ọ̀pẹlẹ̀.
The Cotonou Times: You earlier mentioned Ọ̀rúnmìlà.Was he a Human or a Spirit?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Both,they have the flesh of humans just like us. He’s a short black man,Oke-Igeti. And he’s also a spirit. He also came with the Òríṣà
The Cotonou Times: The reason why this question was asked is because Ifá worshippers generally believe that Ọ̀rúnmìlà is a prophet and that he’s the messenger of Olódùmarè.
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá:Yes
The Cotonou Times: We know that Jesus was alive approximately 2025 years ago. How many years ago can we situate the life of Ọ̀rúnmìlà?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: I don’t know exactly, it can be thirty thousand years back at beginning of humanity.
The Cotonou Times: You have explained the meaning of Ifá, do you want to add something to it?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: Yes,Ifá is the largest source of knowledge. There is no literature that could come close to Ifá as much as Ifá is. The book of Ifá has 256 chapters, now each of these chapters contain 800 stories. This means that when all the Ifá stories are combined in each chapter, the stories total 800. And all these stories we are talking about include so many stories,like bird stories,all types of birds that are known to Yoruba people, Ifá will tell you how they reproduce,the shape and size of their eggs etc
The Cotonou Times:So what you are trying to explain is that all the stories are like encyclopedias?
Professor Ògùnwándé Abímbọ́lá: The book of Ifá is larger than an encyclopedia. If we have a very big house, which has 40feet in width and 100feet in height and we make it a book storage facility,the house won’t be able to contain them. The book of Ifá includes 204,800stories(256 x800)
